Commons:Deletion requests/2024/08/14

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August 14

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COM:FOP Vietnam says "Not OK for new uploads from 1 January 2023 onwards", this file is uploaded in Feb. 2024, to indicate a statue located since 2009, any permissions available? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:54, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Files uploaded by Lascorpion (talk · contribs)

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i dont think any of these flags are too simple for copyright, or too old, or uploader's own works.

RZuo (talk) 06:57, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The subject of the photo herself has not approved the publication of the photo and strongly wishes for it to be deleted. Makimakilove (talk) 08:10, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


no need for a AI upscaled version if we have a proper high quality version (File:Georges Seurat, The Lighthouse at Honfleur, 1886, NGA 61383.jpg) Carl Ha (talk) 08:34, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source is not specified, no evidence this is a free licensed photo of 3d object (even if the object itself is PD). Quick1984 (talk) 08:35, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment Source parameter says "Own processing" (i.e. self-edited). It doesn't quite look like a photo, but like a derivate work. The following look more like photos and might have been used as source images for the derivate work: File:Медаль Заслуженного учителя школы РСФСР.jpg and File:Honored School Teacher of the RSFSR.png. The colors of the leaf on the medal and the Russian ribbon bar are different / incorrect in the processed version. Nakonana (talk) 01:20, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also think that the original images were of higher quality (and obviously didn't have the incorrect colors). The only reason why the processed version is so much in use, is that the uploader changed the image of the Russian template for this reward [1] and the image in the wiki data item [2]. Nakonana (talk) 01:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These awards are not State's but Departmental (ведомственные) ones, so PD-RU-exempt is not applicable.

Quick1984 (talk) 08:38, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The stadium was completed in 1972 by Roger Taillibert (1926–2019). There is no freedom of panorama in France. The copyright term of the country is 70 years, and the image can be undeleted in 2090.

A1Cafel (talk) 08:41, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


This award is not State's but Departmental (ведомственные) one, so PD-RU-exempt is not applicable. Quick1984 (talk) 08:42, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These awards are not State's but Departmental (ведомственные) ones, so PD-RU-exempt is not applicable.

Quick1984 (talk) 08:42, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These awards are not State's but Departmental (ведомственные) ones, so PD-RU-exempt is not applicable.

Quick1984 (talk) 08:43, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re-uploaded after deletion: Commons:Deletion requests/File:Shishkin signature.svg. Quick1984 (talk) 08:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Corrupted file, also servers did not respond. 103.156.15.242 09:03, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thank you. The file was ok for years. Something has happened as of recent. I've tried to reverse it to an older version but with no success. No idea what is happening, tyk (talk) 19:54, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, thanks for pointing out that this file is corrupt. I've tried to understand the error message created from it and played a bit with the source code of the file. After deleting "i:" in "i:extraneous="self"" my browser was able to render it again, but I can't update the file and reupload it. Maybe you can? Hanzlan (talk) 10:42, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Derivative work of non free content? Yann (talk) 09:33, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with the nominator's assessment of the image. I previously nominated an older version, uploaded by me, for speedy deletion to declutter the Wikimedia Commons. A newer image from 2024 was subsequently uploaded for use in the associated Wikipedia article. However, the nominator has now deemed the current image to be unsuitable for hosting and has nominated it for deletion. I believe this decision is unfounded and should be reversed. PaintMeASunrise (talk) 10:18, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We need a formal written permission for a free license from the trophy copyright holder. Please see COM:VRT for the procedure. Yann (talk) 11:02, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The nominator's assertion is wrong, the claim is unfounded, and based on incorrect assumptions. PaintMeASunrise (talk) 13:38, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PaintMeASunrise: This is Commons policy. Yann (talk) 17:46, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The nominator's interpretation of the relevant guidelines is flawed and biased. Applying this interpretation consistently would necessitate the deletion of numerous other images on the platform, including those within personal galleries. This inconsistency highlights the arbitrary nature of the current deletion nomination, which should be reversed. PaintMeASunrise (talk) 02:13, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Ike damage photos

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These three files originate on this page of the US National Weather Service. However, the creator of each of these images is ambiguous because they (and all the other hurricane damage photos on the page) are all collectively attributed "photos courtesy of NWS HGX and Galveston County OEM".

"NWS HGX" is the National Weather Services' Houston/Galveston regional office. Its employees are employees of the US federal government. As such, any works created by them in the course of their duties are ineligible for copyright and are in the public domain.

"Galveston County OEM" is the Office of Emergency Management for Galveston County. Its employees are employees of Galveston County. Works of county governments in Texas are eligible for copyright (Tex. Loc. Gov't Code Ann. § 270.009) and there is no presumption that they are automatically in the public domain.[3]

Beyond that, if any of these images were created by employees of Galveston County, we have no evidence of permission that any copyright that might have existed over them was ever transferred away to put the images in the public domain.

At different times, various regional offices of the National Weather Service have held contests or other public outreach exercises that have made release into the public domain a condition of participation. However, there is no evidence that connects any of these three images with any one of those initiatives.

According to the National Weather Service disclaimer linked at the bottom of the webpage, "The information on National Weather Service (NWS) Web pages are in the public domain, unless specifically noted otherwise." No particular form for such a notation is specified or required in the disclaimer, and a wide range of attribution styles is observed on past and present weather.gov pages. These range from very explicit, formal notices with the copyright (©) symbol, through to "Courtesy of ..." and "Photo by ..." notations.

Given that weather.gov pages have hosted thousands of third-party images of a period of over 20 years and across over 100 regional offices, no special significance can be attached to the fact that not all of these notations share the same wording or format. Indeed, it would be extraordinary if they did.

Taken together, all of the above creates significant doubt under the precautionry principle as to whether any of these three images are in the public domain.

I am not suggesting that any of these three images are necessarily protected by copyright; I'm saying that considering all the evidence together, we simply do not know whether they are or aren't, which means we must delete them. --Rlandmann (talk) 10:13, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Delete per above. Hurricane Clyde 🌀my talk page! 20:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Files uploaded by PaintMeASunrise (talk · contribs)

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Derivative work of non free content?

Yann (talk) 10:22, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly disagree with the nominator's decision to delete these images. The nominator has previously demonstrated an overly broad interpretation of deletion criteria in a related case. Without providing specific and valid reasons for the current deletion nomination, I believe this action is arbitrary and should be reversed. PaintMeASunrise (talk) 10:31, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We need a formal written permission for a free license from the trophy copyright holder. Please see COM:VRT for the procedure. Yann (talk) 11:02, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The nominator's assertion is wrong, the claim is unfounded, and based on incorrect assumptions. PaintMeASunrise (talk) 13:38, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PaintMeASunrise: This is Commons policy. Yann (talk) 17:46, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The nominator's interpretation of the relevant guidelines is flawed and biased. Applying this interpretation consistently would necessitate the deletion of numerous other images on the platform, including those within personal galleries. This inconsistency highlights the arbitrary nature of the current deletion nomination, which should be reversed. PaintMeASunrise (talk) 02:13, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That there are also other files which should be deleted is not an argument not to delete these files. --Rosenzweig τ 09:38, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The nominator's subjective interpretation of the guidelines is inconsistent with the platform's broader acceptance of similar content. This selective enforcement undermines the integrity of the deletion process and raises concerns about the nominator's impartiality PaintMeASunrise (talk) 12:57, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Files uploaded by Aditya Prakash-080 (talk · contribs)

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Historical pictures, unlikely to be own works.

Yann (talk) 10:25, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This file was initially tagged by CFA as Logo (help=off) Yann (talk) 10:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The logo of the party Revolutionary Socialism wasn't already on Wikipedia, it is important to attach it on to a new article about the party so the public have access to its existence. The image is mine because I was asked to make one, since I am connected to the party and I edited the image so it would be a clear image. Jamesation (talk) 20:45, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Jamesation, that logo appears to be above COM:TOO Chile. I'd suggest uploading it locally to Wikipedia in a way in keeping with their fair use policy. Commons does not allow fair use at all. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This file was initially tagged by Aspere as Copyvio (SD) and the most recent rationale was: F1|source=[4] (If it's not displayed, copy the URL itself into address bar) Yann (talk) 10:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Files uploaded by Commercialism (talk · contribs)

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User with bad history, small images without EXIF data, unlikely to be own works.

Yann (talk) 11:41, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This file was initially tagged by Netherzone as Copyvio (copyvio) and the most recent rationale was: User who uploaded this file is not the creator of this work of art, it's a copyright violation. They have done same on multiple files, possible UPE. Yann (talk) 11:42, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FYI background info: the files are used on an article that is part of a highly promotional walled garden on the Munshi/Munsi/Eklund family. The creator of the file, User:Commercialism, has not answered four inquiries on WP regarding UPE/COI. Either the files were created by someone who has been closely connected to the subject for many decades, or they are not the uploader's "own work". Netherzone (talk) 15:44, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Uploaded this file and was unjustly blocked from the site afterwards. Can this file please be removed as i no longer wish for it to be used. 2.27.252.240 19:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Kept: rather low quality but closed as kept per others in series of nominations by anon. --Infrogmation of New Orleans (talk) 23:54, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Uploaded this file and was unjustly blocked from the site afterwards. Can this file please be removed as i no longer wish for it to be used." Renominated because the person who marked it as kept thinks that I have not been blocked. Here is a link to the page which shows that I have been blocked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GarryHenderson6 2.27.248.176 11:42, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's immaterial that you've been blocked. The only question is whether you shot this photo. Did you? -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:28, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These German Notgeld (emergency money) bills from the 1920s are works of Karl Lindegre(e)n, who died in 1970. So they are not in the public domain in Germany yet, and the files should be deleted. They can be restored in 2041.

Rosenzweig τ 12:13, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


These German Notgeld (emergency money) bills from the 1920s are works of de:Georg Karl Rohde, who died in 1959. So they are not in the public domain in Germany yet, and the files should be deleted. They can be restored in 2030.

Rosenzweig τ 12:26, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


COM:PACKAGE Solomon203 (talk) 12:37, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

COM:PACKAGE Solomon203 (talk) 12:37, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per his EB signature, these German Notgeld (emergency money) bills from the 1920s are works of de:Erich Bentrup, who died in 1968. So they are not in the public domain in Germany yet, and the files should be deleted. They can be restored in 2039.

Rosenzweig τ 12:40, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Non-free 2D works in Hong Kong. Solomon203 (talk) 12:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Non-free 3D works in Hong Kong. Solomon203 (talk) 12:49, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep - COM:DM applies ~TheImaCow (talk) 08:30, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Non-free screenshots in Hong Kong. Solomon203 (talk) 12:49, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep - COM:DM applies ~TheImaCow (talk) 08:30, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Copyrighted book covers from Hong Kong. Solomon203 (talk) 12:51, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Copyrighted posters in Hong Kong. Solomon203 (talk) 12:52, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Almost duplicate of File:Wappen Marmagen2.svg which is the better version and more like the PNG version Nordat (talk) 12:53, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These German Notgeld (emergency money) bills from the 1920s are works of de:Trude Graef, who died in 1982. So they are not in the public domain in Germany yet, and the files should be deleted. They can be restored in 2053.

Rosenzweig τ 12:58, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


COM:TOYS 💚Kelly The Angel (Talk to me)💚 13:01, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Datei mit Schreibfehler! Minimaxnms (talk) 13:23, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Educational value? 💚Kelly The Angel (Talk to me)💚 13:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep there’s an unwritten consensus that project related fanart doesn’t need to be “educational”. In any case it’s not out of scope: I mainly uploaded it thinking it could be used as a base for people to draw outfits on, but it could also illustrate fan service or a particular style of sports bra I’m not sure we have many images of. How is this any different than any other image of Wikipe-tan? Dronebogus (talk) 13:40, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


rediger texte 2001:8003:2626:5E01:A530:6046:F0E6:3274 13:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Educational value? 💚Kelly The Angel (Talk to me)💚 13:32, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep there’s an unwritten consensus that project related fanart doesn’t need to be “educational”, and in any case it’s a perfectly good illustration of w:fan service. How is this any different than any other image of Wikipe-tan? Dronebogus (talk) 13:41, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


This file originates on this page of the US National Weather Service. However, the creator of the image is ambiguous because it (and all the other storm damage photos on the page) are all collectively attributed "These photos are provided by National Weather Service storm surveys, as well as from some of our media partners. Many thanks to those who provided pictures following the event". None of these media partners or any other third party are specifically named, and no distinction is made between images created by National Weather Service personnel and those sourced from third parties. It was taken on December 31, 2010 in Missouri.

The same photo appears on pages 4 and 123 of the NOAA publication Storm Data, Volume 52, number 12 (December 2010) (available on demand from https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/IPS/sd/sd.html ) again without specific attribution.

As employees of the US federal government, any works created by NWS employees in the course of their duties are ineligible for copyright and are in the public domain. (And because this photo was taken on a US Army base, Fort Leonard Wood, noting here that the same would apply if the anonymous photographer were a member of the Army, on-duty)

Other than that, images created in the United States by "media partners" and most other third parties are generally protected by copyright.

Without knowing at least who took this photo, we cannot know its copyright status. And if it were ever under copyright, we have no evidence of permission that this copyright was ever transferred away to put the image in the public domain.

At different times, various regional offices of the National Weather Service have held contests or other public outreach exercises that have made release into the public domain a condition of participation. However, there is no evidence that connects this image with any one of those initiatives.

According to the National Weather Service disclaimer linked at the bottom of the webpage, "The information on National Weather Service (NWS) Web pages are in the public domain, unless specifically noted otherwise." No particular form for such a notation is specified or required in the disclaimer, and a wide range of attribution styles is observed on past and present weather.gov pages. These range from very explicit, formal notices with the copyright (©) symbol, through to "Courtesy of ..." and "Photo by ..." notations.

Given that weather.gov pages have hosted thousands of third-party images of a period of over 20 years and across over 100 regional offices, no special significance can be attached to the fact that not all of these notations share the same wording or format. Indeed, it would be extraordinary if they did.

Taken together, all of the above creates significant doubt under the precautionary principle as to whether this image is in the public domain.

I am not suggesting that it is necessarily protected by copyright; I'm saying that considering all the evidence together, we simply do not know whether it is or isn't, which means we must delete it. Rlandmann (talk) 13:40, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


  •  Keep — Per the National Weather Service disclaimer linked at the bottom of the webpage, "The information on National Weather Service Web servers and Web sites is in the public domain, unless specifically annotated otherwise, and may be used freely by the public." There is no indications of this image being “specifically annotated otherwise. For the clause of “specifically annotated otherwise”, NWS either allows the user to add a copyright “©” watermark to the image {as seen in this image, hosted on this NWS webpage} or by directly adding a copyright statement using “©” {as seen on this NWS webpage: difference between the “Tornado Photos” and “Damage” tabs}. That disclaimer is linked at the bottom of all three of the NWS webpages linked above (this image’s webpage + 2 I used as examples). To me, “specifically annotated otherwise” indicates a direct copyright (©) statement or watermark. For that reason, I support keeping this image in the public domain. Noting I am not replying to comments for my Keep !vote, as I have clearly stated why it should be kept and I am leaving it at that. This image is in the public domain, with no evidence to say otherwise. WeatherWriter (talk) 14:02, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
     Weak delete per @Rlandmann. WestVirginiaWX (talk) 19:24, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Precautionary principle applies I think. If it turns out to actually be in the public domain or freely licensed; we can always request that it be undeleted. WestVirginiaWX (talk) 19:20, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "These photos are provided by National Weather Service storm surveys, as well as from some of our media partners. Many thanks to those who provided pictures following the event" is a very specific annotation that some of the images on that page were not created by the federal employees who work at the NWS -- unfortunately, they just don't tell us which images are which. This creates the significant doubt that requires us to delete this image.
    Also, by now, you know full well that we've seen copyrighted images on NWS and NOAA websites with all kinds of attribution notations, not just the formal ones that you insist that they must use. They don't have to notate somebody else's ownership of the file in any specific way, let alone the one you prescribe that they must, nor do they claim they will use any particular form of attribution . That strange notion is something that User:Runningonbrains pulled out of thin air 15 years ago. There's no reason to treat their invention as carved in stone, especially when the NWS themselves say no such thing. -- Rlandmann (talk) 21:26, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per PRP according to currently available information. Anyone should feel free (as always) to reach out to the NWS office in question to determine the original author and confirm copyright status with the original author specifically. Berchanhimez (talk) 23:01, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep per WeatherWriter. ChessEric (talk) 06:16, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep per WeatherWriter. Sir MemeGod ._. (talk - contribs) 23:33, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

nome sbagliato Sofocle77 (talk) 13:42, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

misattributed and incorrectly dated (compare with File:Marcel Junod-4.jpg). filename may refer to File:Marcel_Junod-3.jpg Enhancing999 (talk) 14:01, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep Different (and arguably better) print of File:Marcel Junod-4.jpg. Info & filename should be corrected, should be kept, the two should refer to each other with {{Other version}}. - Jmabel ! talk 19:45, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The reverse sides of these German Notgeld (emergency money) bills from the 1920s are works of de:Walter Hege, who died in 1955. So they are not in the public domain in Germany yet, and the files should be deleted. They can be restored in 2026.

Rosenzweig τ 14:03, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Misattributed, compare with File:Marcel_Junod-3.jpg Enhancing999 (talk) 14:25, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

misdescribed and misattributed comparing to FIle:Marcel Junod-6.jpg and File:Marcel Junod-4.jpg. --- . Enhancing999 (talk) 14:26, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no free distribution of FC logos. English Wikipedia uses this file with restrictions. Nurtenge (talk) 14:40, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Files uploaded by Nikolas781 (talk · contribs)

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per COM:DEMINIMIS, and per COM:FOP Russia File:Moscow City Duma elections, 2024 poster (Плакат посвещённый выборам в МГД 2024).jpg is artwork and should be deleted.

modern_primat ඞඞඞ ----TALK 18:02, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Все агитационные плакаты для выборов в Московскую городскую думу находились в общественном месте. Nikolas781 (talk) 12:56, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Все агитационные плакаты для выборов в Московскую городскую думу находились в общественном месте. Nikolas781 (обсуждение) 12:56, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
All propaganda posters for the elections to the Moscow City Duma were in a public place.
Nikolas781 (talk) 12:59, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Crop of am image of a woman, removing the woman almost entirely except for her feet. I'm curious what educational purpose this crop is meant to serve. Not in use anywhere, this seems like an image created for personal use, misusing Commons as a webhost. Just Step Sideways (talk) 18:20, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well primary use of Commons is to illustrate Wikipedia. It's a photo of shoes and Wikipedia has articles about shoes, doesn't it? Not to mention shoe shot is afaik a standard detail photo. I guess it could use a more specific title, though. Also res. is somewhat low and it's a bit cluttered, so deletion is an option if it would be considered low quality. Mithoron (talk) 19:00, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the net since at least 2016. 186.174.147.166 18:38, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This flag is a purely unofficial fictional variant and I recommend its removal. 反共抗獨光復民國 (talk) 19:24, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The depicted advertisement on the back of the bus is IMO above COM:TOO and hardly de minimis. In addition, France has no freedom-of-panorama exception. -- Túrelio (talk) 19:25, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Censoring the advertisement and delete the oldest version showing the advertissement is still possible? Manchesterunited1234 (talk) 17:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. The advertisement-part could either be blurred (making it unreadable) or blanked-out (ideally in grey). --Túrelio (talk) 19:22, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have cropped these files (see below) instead, I hope that all the files will be kept (expected the oldest versions showing the advertissements who will be deleted). For my oponion:
  •  Keep: Cropped versions only.
  •  Delete: Previous versions showing advertissements.
Manchesterunited1234 (talk) 20:00, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Next time I will know your idea, blurring or blanked-out the ad. Manchesterunited1234 (talk) 20:02, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Other solution, cropped these files to hide the advertissement. Manchesterunited1234 (talk) 18:02, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Same problem with:

Há alguns anos, cometi o erro de tentar publicar um artigo no wikipedia, sem saber especificamente o que eu estava fazendo. Fui bloqueado e reconheço meu erro. Contudo, na tentativa malfadada, fiz upload dessa imagem, a qual hoje eu desejo deletar. É a minha própria imagem, ao lado de meus dois amigos da banda Caboclo Mestiço. Desejo excluir. Deletar. Agradeço antecipadamente. Caboclo Mestiço (talk) 19:52, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Info per policy, deletion just on uploader request is possible up to 7 days after upload; a valid deletion reason needed. 89.64.20.142 20:12, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]